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Bi invisibility saves the day

  • Aug. 30th, 2007 at 7:38 AM
News Media, Newspaper
Either Senator Larry Craig is a brilliant politician or completely ignorant. His reply of "I'm not gay" in response to his recent guilty plea (lewd contact in a public bathroom) has sent the press into a tizzy: Is he gay? Is his marriage a sham? Is this a set up by his enemies?

In reality, his sexuality has nothing to do with anything. He could just as easily be bisexual - or straight! Yes, some straight men like to have sex with other men! If he did do what he plead guilty to, he is a hypocrite regardless of whether he's gay or not. Trying to defend marriage while breaking your marriage vows is hypocritical. Condemning men for having sex with men is hypocritical.

Thanks to this diversion, debate is surrounding his bedroom and not the important issues.

More important than whether Craig is gay:

1) If you look at the actual description of his "crimes", most actions are up to interpretation. Feet are spread too far apart; hand appears to go under urinal. What does is say about our society that lives can be destroyed with one person's interpretation of vague gestures?

2) This brings to life the numerous "stings" across the country, targeting man for intent to engage in consensual sex with another man. Yes, public sex is illegal, but mixed gender couples can only be arrested once they actually engage in sex.

What would happen is a woman hit on another woman for public sex? It is not illegal for a man to hit on a woman and ask for sex; only a man with another man. Why is that??

3) It's beginning to appear that the bulk of the DOMA like legislature is merely a case of self loathing closet cases trying to look "not queer". (that may not be a surprise to some of us). How pathetic must a life be, spent condemning people like yourself.

4) When we (as activists) publicly jump on our initial glee when another conservative is outed as a hypocrite, we lose a teachable moment.

I've gone through a ton of opinion on this yesterday - from schadenfreude to pity. Those of you outside the region may not know this yet, but Mitt Romney is pure evil. I have little pity for those who align themselves with him. But as these closet cases stack up, I find myself trying to comment on the broken system - the problem is clearly bigger than one hypocrite. Why does the conservative party embrace the self loathing hate mongers? What is it in their system that allows people like Foley and Craig to rise to the top?

Comments

[info]mactavish wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 02:57 pm (UTC)
According to an article on Boston.com, in whic this sotry was used simply as an anecdote to describe how organized and careful he is, Mitt Romney strapped his crated dog to the top of the car for an all-day car trip, and when his kids noticed that dog shit was dripping down the back window, he hosed off the dog and the car to clean them, then went on his way. Other than that, he only made scheduled bathroom and fuel stops, and if his kids didn't pee then, they had to wait. His son shared the story with some level of pleasure at his father's organizational skill. I recoiled in horror at the poor dog's experience. I don't want a president who allows that sort of thing.

I noted in my own journal (and I was the only person I know who did, at first) that folks were saying, "Craig! Just admit you're gay!" but that few folks were suggesting that someone who might be both interested in men (Craig was also involved in some investigations involving male pages, in the early eighties) and living with a woman might be bi, rather than gay. Sure, perhaps his wife was a front, and he went against his instincts to help make his kids, but (I don't know why) I'm astonished at how many people assumed he's just one or the other.

However, though I was appalled that some very simple cruising behavior caused his arrest, I never stopped to think that cruising for anonymous sex with women wouldn't have had that result.
[info]marnanel wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 03:12 pm (UTC)
He could just as easily be bisexual - or straight! Yes, some straight men like to have sex with other men!

Then how are they different from bisexuals?
[info]drewkitty wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 04:33 pm (UTC)
They only want sex from other men, not relationships and certainly don't want lose the benefits of their "straight" life.
[info]marnanel wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 04:40 pm (UTC)
So you're telling me that people who exclusively fuck people of other genders but don't want relationships from anyone aren't straight?
[info]edge_ofthe_sea wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC)
Could be. How you label yourself is your business and it is standard practice for straight people to keep calling themselves straight after having same-sex relations. Plus, you should notice the quotes around straight...it is probably his/her, yours, and my belief that they should label themselves bisexual (just as I label myself though my "main attraction" is to females and I rarely date guys). But again, it is not yours or mine to say, as the key characteristic is truly self-identity.
[info]curriedspam wrote:
Sep. 10th, 2007 11:47 am (UTC)
If they do not define themselves as straight, thne they aren't straight. Sexuality is much more complex than who you fuck.
[info]curriedspam wrote:
Sep. 10th, 2007 11:59 am (UTC)
wow! lots of thought provoking questions. thanks!

There are many, many examples of this. the most obvious one is men in prison (or on a submarine, or any other place where women are not available). They may have sex with receptive men because they cannot get to a woman.

Some men consider themselves straight because they only feel emotionally attached to women and could never see themselves ina relationship with a man. they choose to label themselves as straight because of this - regardless of whether they sleep with men on a regular basis.

Some men who believe they are exclusively straight may have fantasies involving other men. At some point, they may choose to engage in this behavior to test their fantasies, after which time they may decide that their fantasies are just that and continue to call themselves straight.

In the same way, some gay men may experiment with sleeping with women. Yet, they continue to call themselves gay.

And some men live in a "monosexually defined world." They listen to the J Michael Bailey's of the world who tell them bi men don't exist. And since they aren't gay, they define themselves as straight.

As Fritz Klein so aptly described, one's sexuality is extremely complicated - involving who one feels emotional connected to, is attracted to, fantacizes about, and so on. There's your past, current, and ideal behviors in each of these areas that combine to make your unique sexuality. Since none of us are exactly the same, only you can define your sexuality.

Terefore, I am not the one to tell someone else how they should define themselves
[info]marnanel wrote:
Sep. 10th, 2007 12:10 pm (UTC)
I'm not intending to tell other people how they should define themselves, merely trying to define the limits of a term so that it can be used in discussion. Any term whose applicability to people is determined not by attributes which that person does or does not hold but instead by that person's willingness to be described by that label becomes rather useless for discussion because we can't say for sure what we actually mean by it. Of course, I am not saying that different discussions should not be free to use different definitions, and as your examples show there are many ways in which a person might be said to be bisexual. But a term whose ambit I'm unable to define without one of the people concerned being able to add themselves or remove themselves on a whim is not useful for debate, and so if that's the fate of the word "bisexual" maybe I'll just have to stop using it and say "people who have a romantic or sexual interest without regard for the gender presentation of potential partners" every time.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 27th, 2007 09:25 pm (UTC)
Identity vs. behavior
I think the key here is the distinction (and often incomplete overlap) between identity and behavior.

As someone mentioned, a man can have sex with men and still identify as straight. But you can safely talk about "men who have sex with men and women" (or "MSMW" as you'll often see it in studies) and know the accuracy of the term.

In some ways, I'm grateful at times like these that the media mostly seems allergic to "the B word" -- *I* don't want to have to claim this hypocritical bozo. Senator MSMW from Idaho would give honest bisexuals like myself a bad name.
[info]elainegrey wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 04:07 pm (UTC)
It is not illegal for a man to hit on a woman and ask for sex; only a man with another man. Why is that??

I remember a college discussion with some guys about their horror about gay rights. Their stories about being hit on seemed the main horror. As a woman, they got no sympathy from me. Some years later, Halloween on South St in Philly, a female colleague of mine was cross-dressed as male construction worker. We approached a guy cross-dressed as a woman (a guy in a dress, not a cross-dresser). My colleague promptly began cat calls and "Hey-Bay-Bees," and the guy just looked horror stricken. His girlfriend gave a good talking back and "saved" him....

These experiences drive home how much of this is about power, power to be the initiator....

-here from [info]mactavish
[info]outdoortoys wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)
Well said. It's a power game, and a lot of men don't like it when the tables are turned, especially publicly.

As for the whole bi issue, to marnamel: Just as a man who occasionally forays into same-sex situations isn't automatically gay. They are different than bisexuals because they self-identify as something else. Forcing our labels on someone else doesn't make the labels appropriate.

I believe heterosexuals can also be arrested for lewd behavior in some jurisdictions, though I'm sure the concept of lewd is far more loose for same-sex than for hetero.
[info]edge_ofthe_sea wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 06:51 pm (UTC)
Ugh, not to mention the whole girl-on-girl kissing is a-okay (as long as you are doing it for male viewing pleasure of course and the two participants better be young and hot as well) and no one goes around attempting to jail these "lewd" individuals.
[info]eliza_bennett wrote:
Aug. 30th, 2007 08:48 pm (UTC)
this story is making me crazy. if he did indeed express interest in having sex with another man, who cares?!?! since when is expressing the desire to fuck someone against the law?

and his proclamation of "i am not gay. i have never been gay" is meaningless. what reveals more is his voting records, which is clearly against what the media likes to term "the gay agenda" and the rest of us usually refer to as "equality". he has fought hard against same-sex marriages AND civil unions of any kind, has been a strong advocate for "don't ask don't tell".

and now his own party is calling on him to resign. hate-mongers is the word to describe them.

and i agree with your assessment of romney - i'm from MA and the man is horrid. *shudder*